This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,844 for Thursday the 27th of April 2023.
Today's show is entitled, 2022-2023 New Years Show Episode 6.
It is part of the series HP or New Year's show.
It is hosted by HP or volunteers and is about 121 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is 2022-2023 New Years Show where people come together and chat.
Can I do something personal real quick?
Depends on how personal.
Someone tried saying hello to me as if I'm somebody and I talked to them because I was too afraid
to lose my own train of thoughts.
So I just would like to say hello to you.
Infamous, maybe.
I think the only thing I'm famous for is being infamous and I'll screw up.
But thank you.
Hello?
Is that by your hand?
Yeah.
Don't worry about me.
It's probably a year we won this.
I remember you for your sub-sub-sub-sub as you're screening.
You're coming in.
Yeah.
That's what a bad topic.
What I was going to say is which country has the best beer?
Belgium, Belgium.
America right now.
With Americans even can make some Belgians.
It's unbelievable.
You can make some Belgians.
Because if I was done this time, yeah.
Well, the US is doing with beer.
What Japan did with everything else.
They see how people do it.
They try it out that way without like pre-judging it and saying it's wrong.
And they put their twist on it.
And they combine what they've learned.
And you know, Japan did it with cars and electronics.
And wag you beef.
Whatever.
Watch Tom Sellik, Mr. Baseball.
For that speech.
But America has done the same with beer and has done really well with it.
I did up to Lafayne.
It's a few years ago now.
And there was a contingent from the USA, obviously, because it's a huge conference.
And a few of them, it was their first time here.
No, it had first time in Belgium.
And they were like, let's go have some drinks.
So we did. And of course, what they didn't realise was two problems.
One, the lowest percentage of alcohol you're going to get in a Belgian beer.
Usually in a pub is about 9%.
Which is a lot higher than one.
So five years.
Four to six percent, you know, that we're used to getting even in the UK.
We could usually top out about five for an average.
But it also goes well.
The maritime I had on belts.
Americans don't have the time.
So we have 16 ounces of their smaller.
So you're right.
It's a bigger beer.
And it's got to taste as much alcohol in it.
So we had a very merry bunch of Americans.
The fact that, you know, Poké's right.
This is one of the greatest places to get different types.
And really well made and really flavorful beers.
I mean, it's basically anything you want.
Most of your average Americans are still drinking piss water.
Good.
Let them.
It keeps the price down and the really, really good stuff for the rest of us.
Right.
I mean, I just got all this great stuff here.
And if you walk into a bar in middle America and you're, you're a white guy,
and you order anything other than a Budweiser,
you're probably going to start a fight.
You're exposed to, I tell you what.
It's not even Budweiser anymore.
By the way, it's pronounced piss vasa.
The guys that I drink with drink.
One guy drinks raspberry,
Natty lights.
Another guy drinks.
Oh, Natty lights.
He's another guy.
Like you wouldn't believe with this flavor.
The what?
And the more flavor than your average Budweiser.
I don't know, mate.
Okay.
No, light is disgusting.
No matter what flavor you freaking put in it.
But that's the point.
At least it's not a generic Bud Light.
Yeah, but Bud Light is better than the,
the gagging that I did on that.
But Natty lights.
Yes, okay.
I want the raspberry Natty light.
I never had a regular Natty light.
The raspberry Natty light made me gagged.
I almost chucked it.
But they're all nasty.
I think it's interesting.
You were saying,
Okay.
Poké, you were saying about the Japanese taking things and excelling.
I can attest that that was not the case with beer.
And it's not because their beer is bad.
Their beer is absolutely great.
They do some amazing craft beers.
They do insist on putting about 20 centimeters of head on a glass,
which is just fundamentally wrong.
I don't want that to be more head than beer.
Not a few hours for Tim Cook.
So, I don't tend to ask Tim Cook.
Mr. Apple.
Tim Apple.
No, the other Tim Cook.
You were just wouldn't ask Tim.
Because he was a patriot, dammit.
No, Tim Cook is the brewer of Sam Adams.
And his first commercials back in the It could have been late 80s,
early 90s, mid 90s.
I don't know.
I was too young to drink at the time.
But I heard them all.
He's coming to drink.
What's in the white side?
I was listening after that.
So, I come in.
Different than drinking.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's nice.
Okay.
So you've told me, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, hey.
Yeah.
Fine.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
Anyway.
And you've never heard of this before.
Yeah.
Any other people.
Yeah.
You've?
That's the same for you.
It's like you're like, you're doing the whole new.
Somebody said that the point smaller in the America,
but I was like, well, OK.
The American is fine.
It's like, you didn't…
In America, you're not supposed to drink until 21.
You can drive a car 15, yeah.
I'm sorry.
With car king killed people.
Yeah, the driver or the people in the road, the drinking in the US is 21, but I swear the drinking
agent I was 14.
Yeah, the drinking agent the UK is 18, but we all started drinking around about 14.
Exactly.
Oh yeah.
Thank you.
Come on, Sebastian.
I'm sorry for Bristol.
We know what it's like in the West Country.
You're raised on sight, or it's in your very least.
No, you're also over from Submerset, and you've got nothing to do, but like where's the
combine harvest is going to go through the field, drink your cider.
Time out.
Yeah.
Oh my no, no.
Exactly.
Thank you very much.
It's all farm country out there.
And the whole thing is, is I swear the state's port is drinking and driving.
Lots of states.
Yeah.
I'm out.
Hey, Seb, you are causing a lot of feedback.
Anytime you're keyed up in anyone else's keyed up, there's huge amounts
of echo.
The might be.
I don't know.
It depends.
That's up.
It'll be one of two things either, you're not using a headset.
Or you're like, well, a stiff stick mic.
No, it not might be it definitely is.
Anytime you're keyed up in anybody else's keys up, it echoes back at everybody.
It's definitely a thing.
It's definitely happening.
I can't tell you what's causing it, but it's it's very clear.
It's like software clear, not headphones next to your mic, so it's maybe something
and software.
But it could be.
If you're not wearing headphones, I'll do it too.
But you've got to speak.
There's a bit of a bit of a mic.
That's it.
I find it.
Tack your two quiet.
No one could hear anything.
And could you repeat that with a little more gain?
I prefer that way to be honest.
Yeah, I want George speaking.
I don't want to get what George was saying.
It's usually not.
It went to heck.
Oh, that was a good burn.
George I was interested, even if the guys who actually know you want George, the British
contingent were having a poke at, but you know, you couldn't shout over us.
Why?
You've loved me.
That's what's because he's just because it's just because his name is the love bug.
He doesn't mean he loves you.
Well, I know he can get his voice, he doesn't know the love bug.
Yeah, he's kidding.
Oh, no.
He says he's got work in.
Yeah, I love that.
He's a really, really old crappy version of mumbleed for it to work.
I tried to snap version and the flat pack version of the most recent ones.
I didn't know I just then would work.
I assumed to have a good issues.
No, no, it's difficult to find.
I know.
He's the same certificate.
I used to save certificate.
But it was more the fact that they pushed to talk, um, global shortcuts.
Whenever I click the add button to say, this is the shortcut I want to use for push to talk.
It didn't do anything.
Oh, yeah, I had that problem as well on the version from the arch repository.
I had to get the get versions from arch.
So I think they've broken some.
Yeah, it looks like him.
Am I coming?
That's fine.
It was the same process.
This is probably user error.
It sounds beautiful.
Oh, bless you.
No, I mean, he's gone on.
He was a fantastic setup.
Yeah, you sound really like your level is already set up.
Not blowing anybody out.
I could hear almost made out what you said, even when people were walking on you.
And when you're the only one talking, you have to gorgeous.
I geez.
What are you using?
That is a.
You shut up guys.
What might you go?
I'm using a Samsung Q2U, which is, I think is the equivalent of the audio
technical 2100.
It is.
It's a really, really nice microphone.
Incredibly cheap.
Probably works out.
Well, a current exchange rates about 67 cents.
But I think back in the day when we actually had a working currency.
It was would have been about 60, maybe $70.
I think this is one of the ones that Leo that was formally on midcast was recommending.
And it's actually on sale right now.
Sam was on his menu to one.
Q2U.
Thank you.
Sam Sun.
Yes.
So XLR and USB.
So I'm using it through XLR for a mixer.
But the USB option for it works really well as well.
Really does it sound just as good?
Minus the mixer or just almost as good?
Minus the mixer.
Well, I've never used it through USB personally.
But the wife does when she does her work from home.
Usually, she will use the same microphones for our show.
Both going through USB for the mixer for the podcast.
But when she's doing her own work, she just takes the USB cable from the back
of the microphone into a laptop.
And it just works.
And it sounds brilliant.
Oh, this is for Americans.
This is $99.99 at Walmart.
You five fifty nine on Amazon.
Yeah.
Fifty five dollars and ninety nine cents on Amazon.
I don't want to say that to you guys.
But I've watched ITR 2100s about eight years ago.
I bought three of them for about thirty dollars.
So they have gone up in price like crazy.
But is that just for the microphone or is that the podcasting set?
Which is like your best standard.
If that was the best standard.
Right.
What advice?
Forget the headphones.
The headphones are beyond.
Okay.
Buy your own.
Yeah.
Okay.
So George, tack geospark.
When you spoke up and said that,
the thirty three bucks, you know,
saving twenty bucks, twenty two bucks.
I would brag about that.
If I were in your seat too, but from my seat,
I just heard what your sounds like compared to the love bugs.
It's worth the extra twenty bucks.
Actually, I'm not using that mic.
Oh, nice safe.
Oh, good save.
Thank you.
I really didn't.
Oh, I didn't want to walk away.
Feel like I was mean.
Thank you.
No, this is a joke.
I'm going to the next clue van or some weird off name brand.
Drop mic.
So.
I'm sure I'll go medical medication cold back.
Yeah, I know.
It's weird.
It looks like it does look a medicating.
It looks like it.
It's a pretty mic, but it's.
It's generic.
Did the ex-living give you those weird dreams to love
up every single night.
Then I think I recognize you even from outside of.
But.
Okay.
I think I remember you.
Speaking of prices though, you know,
that whole ninety nine dollars ninety nine cents,
you know where that comes from?
Why we do the ninety nine cents thing.
It's a cycle of two things, isn't it?
No two dollars is less than a hundred.
Yeah, but it's got what's the key.
It's buffer.
If it knows the key.
It's it's that's partially correct.
So that's only one side of it.
The actual reason is that when people make sales,
and they would be they would skip putting it through the register,
because it was just easier to not.
But of course, if they have to give change,
they have to open the register and record the sale.
So to force them to do that at the end of the day of the registers are.
Exactly, because they had to reach in to get the change.
And that's why they put it to ninety nine cents,
because that was the closest they could get to the dollar,
while also forcing their employees to open the register.
Interesting.
See, I prefer having round number things to pay.
You know, if you've got one more.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, some of our local supermarkets have started mail,
selling things for, you know,
1499.
Well, you'd be surprised, actually.
You might have placed it still only take cash.
I live in Germany, and I live in Germany,
and they just, they don't do card here.
It's just cash.
I good for you guys.
I just started doing,
um, carrying a little bit of cash again.
And it isn't even all that much,
and I almost never use it, but it's empowering.
It really,
Well, yeah, the emergency station,
your pocket is always a good thing.
But yeah, I haven't actively carried cash
other than like having a 20 on me for a decade now.
May you see, you want to get 20,
where you have a difference it makes to you.
Yeah, get a cash clip.
Get a cash clip.
I'm bring that out when you come to pay for something.
And you feel like a king,
even though that's only, you know, 200 euros in there.
That's a good way to draw attention
in a lot of the places that I've lived.
You've been doing it.
It's a good way to get it.
Don't doubt in the parking line.
I mean, yeah, but in, I mean,
in Berlin, that's not really a,
not really a concern.
Well, it's been 20 years in El Paso.
I'm very sorry.
I'll bring cash with me for a first then,
but, but say,
and even at first,
they're more,
well, two of the stands may even take cards.
There's a piece at the stand to the mentee,
and maybe something else.
You see, you say that,
but when I was at a free note live,
I went to try and buy,
I told you about the e-max manual that I have.
I tried to buy that from the free software foundation stall,
and they were trying desperately to use free software
to power the card readers,
and it just didn't work.
And I was just there like,
I can go and get cash out there like,
no, no, no, we'll get this working.
It took an hour and a half.
But obviously, that was in Bristol.
So, yes, that makes sense.
Perfect, sense.
You know, you mentioned free software.
You know what that reminds me of?
Is that free software?
No, it reminds me of free software.
Yeah, free money.
Okay, money.
Software.
Yeah.
No, no, free is in freedom.
I was going to make a recommendation.
Sorry.
Okay.
I don't understand.
Oh, this is the time in the place,
but at least let me get my recommendation out first.
And then we can make this the time in the place for free versus train.
Conversation.
Yeah, please.
Anyway, just in case anyone who hears this doesn't listen to dev random,
and I'm sure no one who listens is does.
I found an awesome, awesome, awesome app in the F.
Droid store for Android called flavor decks.
And it's built so that you can catalog and take pictures and do star ratings.
And it's all personal.
If you don't have to share it with anybody or we're take theirs.
I would like there for there to be a way to be.
But I don't know if there is.
Maybe there is.
I don't know.
Anyway, and it's it's pre built for whiskey and wine and beer and something else.
But I've been able to make it work for pipe tobacco.
I just added it as a category.
And it's really, really nice.
I did it on you random as our, our F. Droid spotlight, which we don't always do,
which is everyone's in a while.
We'll find something in spotlight it.
And this made the cut.
This is an awesome, awesome little app.
What's the name of that again?
Flavor decks.
We have a story for those.
Oh, from the west country of England. And again, and perhaps, although it may have been also.
It may have originally come from Scotland.
Yes.
Not now that I think of it.
It's a counter to your money clip, our German.
The counter to the argument for the money clip or the argument against the money clip.
It was the counter to the argument for the money clip.
And American went to Scotland with a Velcro wallet.
And one of the Scottish people said, saw them opening it.
And I'm hearing the, the traditional Velcro screech.
I, yes, that's a good Scotch pocket.
It screams when you open it.
Ha ha ha ha.
Yeah.
Is that calling Scotch's cheap word that I missed the joke?
Yeah.
It's got some cheap.
And climate sucks down co-hosts on here.
That doesn't necessarily cheap.
They just take to spend money.
Okay.
That's going to be something.
I know it's not the same thing.
Okay.
We have a common stereotype that the Scotts are tight-fisted.
It's not true from what I've experienced with Scottish people.
But it's a funny little, you know, it's a funny stereotype.
It's like a stereotype about, you know, people from the West Country always being drunk.
Except that one's true.
So the couple, the couple differences that I see immediately, not to be in my card.
You can be generous and be happy to spend money on friends and family and still be cheap on a day-to-day basis.
And you can also be thrifty or frugal and always go for like the best bang for your buck choice after doing some research.
If thinking thought too hard about this, that just cheap.
I think too hard about everything I can't turn it off.
I'm sorry, fellas.
I didn't mean to bring it down.
There's another story about Americans who have a certain fear of debt.
This guy said that his father or grandfather borrowed $10 from a farmer.
And he said, the farmer never asked for his $10 back as long as he paid him a dollar a week.
Good deal.
If you're the farmer or the other guy, really, if you satisfied with that.
I don't understand the point of the story, though.
He acknowledged the obligation, but he never had to pay the principal back, just the intro.
Yeah.
No, I got that.
But how did that relate to being afraid of debt?
It's basically in America.
Yeah.
It's like the total amount of the land up paying is like $52.
Is it because just paying the $10?
Yeah.
I had $25 in student loans and that's low.
$25,000 in student loans is low.
I've been paying on it for 10 years and I met like $15,000 and that's only because, you know,
we weren't required to pay for a long time and I kept paying.
So what you meant was that Americans are afraid to acknowledge the existence of the concept of debt
before signing on to more of it than they can afford.
Well, it's not a matter of signing on to more of it than you can afford.
They sell you the American dream the only way to get ahead is to go to college, blah, blah, blah,
get a better paying job, et cetera, et cetera.
Now granted, most of that is, you know, garbage.
But what they don't tell you and what they do with 18 year old kids that don't know any better with their finances
is they do two things to put you in debt.
One, they convince you to go to college that you can't afford to pay for.
And in order to do that, you have to take out loans.
And two, you're 18 years old, you need to be able to eat and dress so they get you on a credit card.
And then, hey, look, zero APR for the first six months and then afterwards 24%.
And they don't tell you how that works until, you know, you're paying it and you keep paying and you keep paying
and the amount that you owe keeps staying the same.
The first part, you're 100% correct about the second part.
It can happen at any age, it's not just 18 and I think four has been heat up.
But I think, I think it's predatory when it happens to any senior old that has never handled their own finances before.
Yes, the things you listed are the bait and the credit is the trap.
Yeah.
So I was just going to say, in the UK, we have the world's stupidest sort of student loan system.
So we never used to have student loans.
We had an equal to student grant and it was basically paid for by taxes.
Right.
And then, all of a sudden, under the black government, I want to say it's a labour government,
they introduced this idea of student loans.
But so student loans can actually get extremely expensive in the UK.
Like, you know, America, yes, you know, you're saying $25,000.
My debt is currently 47,000 pounds.
Did he just sell for every year?
Obviously. The reason mine is only $25,000 is because our only came out,
$25,000 is because I'm a veteran and I'm a disabled veteran.
Right.
And I was getting money from the government to go to school.
It just wasn't enough to actually go to school and live.
Sure.
But I've got a friend who, you know, she went to,
once I go call now and hers is less than mine.
You know, I'm just saying it's not this sort of hard and fast thing of like Americans always pay more.
In fact, mine ends up being pretty expensive.
But the deal is a joke, you see. Here's the joke.
We pay interest on that every month.
And you can, if you want to, start paying it down.
But after 30 years, they'll forget the debt anyway.
Explain that.
Because they want 30 years of payments from you.
You can actually stop paying and they won't be able to find you most of the time.
Oh, here they'll sign up.
I get you.
Well, I've already said, but oh, I want to add in.
And then you also university was at 9,000 to get you most of the year.
And I think it's gotten pretty, don't they?
They do, if you're Scottish.
If you're Scottish, yeah.
And if you're Scottish and you go to a Scottish university or if you're Welsh and you go to a Welsh university, you get it for free.
If you're English and you go to any university in the UK, you have to pay 9 grand a year, because nobody likes you.
The world's hard.
Except for one university, the one that I went to, the university of hard knocks, that's free.
Oh, no.
Well, there's a cost.
It's just not monetary.
It's not.
Indeed.
Actually, what you have interesting with with US student loans is the bankers put them ahead of any other debt or payment system.
You're on disability.
They'll suck up your student loan.
Your, they'll suck up your disability pay to pay off your student loans.
Yes.
You can't get rid of the student loans by declaring bankruptcy.
You can't get rid of the student loans by dying.
It just, they will take it from your estate and anything left over goes to your family.
Thanks a lot.
But I didn't.
Yeah, I paid them all early too, because I got it down to a point.
Mind you, I'm in my 50s now.
So I paid them off in my 40s, which is rare.
But I got to a point where I looked at it and it was a certain amount.
I'm like, how can I afford that?
And I just paid it all off.
They were probably.
Yeah.
Get rid of that interest.
I, I may be at a point in my 40s where I earned enough money to pay off my student loans.
But on principle, I will not pay off my student loans.
I will wait for it to run out.
I will stop paying it.
The reason for that is that they changed the terms of the agreement after I signed it.
So I don't see why I should have to pay them anything.
Unfortunately, I'm not one of those people that can.
20.
I just feel like, you know, they, they, you know, the government changed the terms of the agreement.
They changed the terms of the, um, of the sort of, uh, the, they changed the terms of how
student loans were after I'd already signed up the student loans.
So that invalidates the agreement I signed.
So theoretically, I've not signed any agreement.
Did you hear what they did?
It's the term that you hear.
We do not change them anymore.
Did you hear what they did?
The teachers here.
Um, essentially what happened was teachers require X amount of education,
college education, of course, right?
Well, the US government offered to pay for said education.
If these teachers worked X amount of years for, uh, community schools,
essentially.
And, but you had to pay for it first.
So you had to get the loans and pay for everything first.
And then once these teachers went out and actually, you know, got the jobs that they were supposed
to get in order to get this all paid for.
There were like, no, we ran out of money.
We're not paying anything.
Enjoy your loans.
Pay them back yourself.
Classic.
If I could just take the opportunity to quickly jump in, um,
I'm going to take my leave.
It's nothing to do with Joe Ressington having shown up.
Um, John Ressington.
But the last time he and I, but the last time he and I run an event similar to this one,
we ended up talking about monetizing podcasting until four in the morning.
And I ended up with a hangover.
So you're leaving me now now.
Now, generally, it's not to do with you, Joe.
Um, I would happily speak with you for, you know, the next 12 hours about absolutely nothing
at all.
But, uh, unfortunately, I'm falling asleep.
And my beer is just about to end.
Well, let's see.
You have to show the love bug later.
So, uh, maybe we can tell that later.
Yeah.
Well, you'll still be.
You'll still be on the go to midday.
I think I think has your numbers on me cast a while ago, Joe Ress.
Come back.
Hang out.
I've agreed.
It's been a long, long time since I was on that show in my friend.
Yeah.
You should come back.
I don't really use the next minute anymore, or advice anyone else is.
So it would feel somewhat hypocritical to come back on that show in the fridge.
Come back on a roadway.
No way.
Okay.
That's crossing a line.
Well, I just realized, Joe.
I'm feeling we have it.
We have it.
Just through a neutral podcast that he could be right.
Yeah.
We don't have good enough, so I'm probably for Joe Ress.
I'm the least luckest.
Well, my it doesn't matter about destroy agnostic.
I have an operating system agnostic approach.
If you use windows, good for you.
If you use macOS, good for you.
If you use WSL, good for you.
You know, I'm not going to necessarily use those things, but if you want to use it and
you're happy and you get your job done, then I'm not going to judge you.
That's not a very nice thing to do is it to judge people's choices.
Well, of course, one can sign it.
I'm a freaking happy.
Well, we are extremely destroy agnostic on mint cast.
Believe it or not.
Yes, a lot of it is mint focused.
But we're talking about anything that's going on in Linux in general.
Otherwise, we'd run out of things to talk about real quick.
Well, yeah.
It's a podcast by the Linux Mint community for all users of Linux.
Yeah.
It's one of those situations.
We're like, I follow you on Masad on Twitter.
And yeah, I've never actually encountered you in a room like this.
So, hi.
I think, hello.
Do you and I have talked before, haven't we, Joe?
I would imagine so.
Yeah.
On here.
Yeah.
Almost every year, I pop in for a little bit because my wife goes to bed.
And I'm just kind of drunk and bored.
So, yeah.
I'm kind of drunk and not bored.
Is my audio back?
And anyone hear me this time?
Yeah.
We can hear you.
Yeah.
Yes, I'm great.
If you got what Mike's fun if you got, it sounds amazing.
I have to look it up on Amazon.
It's a little Sony stereo lapel, Mike.
I was probably between seven and $17.
Wow.
Yeah.
Sounds absolutely great.
Yeah.
It doesn't, like, it's a clip, Mike.
It's a little thing you'd clip to your lapel.
So, you've got to clip it someplace stable.
And that's hard for me to do.
So, it always, often you'll hear it bumping against my shirt.
Like that or sliding around or something.
Yeah.
That sounds terrible.
But when it's in the right position, that sounds absolutely great to me.
Yeah.
If you could clip it to a Mike stand, you'd have a podcast set up.
And it's just a two and a half millimeter plug.
It's just, you know, you need a two and a half for the Mike and a two and a half
your headphones as opposed to a four ring three and a half that has both.
Or an adapter.
It's just electrical.
Interesting.
Yeah. Well, sounds good as it is now.
So, keep doing what you're doing.
It's my advice.
Oh, thank you, sir.
Speaking of monetizing podcasts,
who here has looked into cast a pod.
Not me, but it sounds interesting.
Please tell me more.
Okay.
So, cast a pod is a federated service.
I know about them because I'm fun, quite a maintainer.
And they do podcasting like we do.
But they do a lot of additional things.
Like they've got a lot of additional features and stuff like that.
Such as monetizing podcasts.
So, you get it's Fediver software,
but it can do stuff like premium episodes and that sort of thing.
How does it monetize them?
What kind of monetizing when we're talking about?
Well, it allows for things like I say,
premium episodes.
I imagine they integrate with payment providers
in a standard way and then produce sort of subscribe
a specific RSS feeds.
In a similar way, it's something like sub stack.
I don't actually know the technical details,
but I'm guessing that's how they work.
And they all hate drugs.
They all hate drugs.
Yeah, yeah.
So, Patron, why are you so that?
Yeah, because Patron, I upload advert for RSS feeds.
That advert free episodes to an RSS feed that people can.
Yeah.
And like Patron takes care of all of the back end of that.
And when people stop paying,
like the RSS feeds stops working and stuff,
and I don't have to do anything.
Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah, I'm sure of the financial handling
or the content side of it.
It's the content specifically.
They don't handle all payments.
They integrate with payment providers.
I mean, this is one thing you'll notice
about all of us Fediver's developers.
We do not want to touch payments with a barge pole.
That stuff is far too complicated
and needs to be centralized.
It cannot be done in a federated way.
The best we can do in other projects.
Well, I've heard of boosts for my friend.
I've heard of the lightning network and boosts
and Bitcoin and crypto.
That's definitely the answer to this.
And not total bullshit,
pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme or whatever.
It's definitely the future.
Jorra, Jorra says that you live on that
or is it just a way to get started?
That was sarcasm and I do not recommend any of that.
At all.
And I agree that payment systems have to be centralized
and regulated otherwise bad things happen long term.
Well, thank you for clearing that.
Okay.
That sounded sincere.
The best that we can do.
British people is hard to tell sometimes.
We sound sarcastic all the time.
The best humor is my favorite.
We're don't apologize for that.
They just missed it.
I'm not.
I'm eight and a half out of ten tonight.
Maybe I've been drinking.
But the best that we can do is so.
I work on another project called Retribute.
And the idea is that it uses your Fediver's information,
such as you can log in with MasterDarn or peer tube or funquail.
And basically you can get a weighted list of who you've interacted with.
So in the case of funquail,
it's what artists have you listened to most.
In the case of MasterDarn,
who have you interacted with most peer tube,
and then it basically aggregates those into a list,
and gives you links to their payment providers that they have put in their profile or in their associated links.
And the idea is we'd like to build on that to be more of a thing with a tool that can use put in place,
budgeting and stuff like that.
Just to make that kind of user-driven donation model more readily available and apparent in the Fediver's.
And what podcast to pod do is more traditional.
They do sort of, like I say,
they have like, like Patreon, like substat, they have this paid RSS feed for specifically paid content paid episodes.
And they also, I believe, do,
they have the ability to add things like region-specific advertising.
I believe it's the thing they can do.
Oh, have you heard that personally?
I get a lot of it, because I live in Germany, so my podcast that are in English
get disrupted by Germans talking about.
Of course I'm just like, when's the first time you notice that?
Oh, it's been there for ages.
Like, I've noticed it.
I'm think I probably started noticing it around 2017, 2018, something other?
Okay, because I was thinking only heard it maybe a year and a half ago.
It's becoming really big.
Dude, I'm sorry.
I hate it, but that is impressive tech that your pod catcher obviously has to report an address.
But the server can go, okay, that address.
We insert these ads at these locations, these timestamps,
and recompile on the fly in less than the time that it takes to download our finished podcast.
Well, more than likely what they do is,
and I've not looked into the tech, but my imagination is that they have a central server,
and basically they get a report back of a location from the podcast,
and they fish out whatever ad makes sense there.
It's the same link.
I feed.
No, I don't think so.
It's actually way more sinister than that.
If you're dealing with Spotify's one that they bought,
it's way more sinister.
What's the same thing?
All right, don't forget what you're going to say,
because I'm going to say whatever Joe's about to say is correct.
And here's why I know what he's about to say is correct.
He's why I know it's not just pre-compiled for the regions,
because I've used it while traveling,
and you can get there are,
there are venn diagram overlap areas on the physical map of the United States,
where those ads will change in the same episode.
Well, not once it's been downloaded,
but from the same server, from the same podcast,
and it doesn't take 100 miles or so to do it.
I think it is based on, at least here in the States,
the three letter code for the nearest airport,
because that's the way weather is done.
It's not by zip code, it's not as granular as town,
but it may be by weather region.
No, it's way more sinister than that, I'm afraid.
It's based on you.
It's based on, I mean, in theory, let's face it,
this tech is relatively new,
and it's part of the whole ad tech,
spying, whatever you want to call it, tracking,
and we can easily fit into a slot in the database.
Well, yeah, but so the deal with it is,
what you're talking about is dynamically inserted ads,
and so the technology of that's relatively straightforward.
It's quite a beefy server, server.
Your podcast client requests a download.
They make a decision on what ads are going to get stitched in.
They get stitched in less than a second,
into the order of file,
and then it gets downloaded to your,
or streamed to your device,
and then you have the ads that they have decided.
That's, I mean, we're all technical.
We understand how you could do that if you had a beefy enough server,
but how they make the decision, that's the sinister part.
So they, I mean, it's much like how this decision is made
when you're browsing without ad block enabled on web pages.
They are targeted at you.
You, you Google searched for, I don't know,
what did I search for recently?
Bluetooth speakers,
and then I just get bombarded with loads of different Bluetooth speaker ads
everywhere I go.
And so the theory is that there's a punchline.
Sorry, sorry, you've got my other sense this.
I think I was like, why are they talking about that?
Although I think I've got this now.
Well, I might be a totally odd one.
But anyway, instead of major, okay?
I listen to say a,
a metal station from Germany or France or whatever,
but it'll actually Netherlands begin with.
And what I notice suddenly,
as I was getting my kind of local advert,
like I was looking like,
why am I getting a local advert for whatever and Bristol?
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I mean, it's a cause of its location.
Obviously.
Well, so Joe had my stuff like quick, quick punchline,
and then you get back, please.
It doesn't work because after you buy the Bluetooth speaker,
you get those same ads for the next three months,
so they really don't know shit.
All they can do is watch.
That's the upside to this. That's the bright side.
Well, that's one way of looking at it.
Another way of looking at it is,
I have a return period, and I may see an advert for a Bluetooth speaker
that's better than the one that I bought,
and I may return this one to Amazon,
then you can add it back to India to be burnt,
and then I will buy a better one for a cheaper price potentially.
But anyway, as I was saying,
it's kind of based on,
Well, you may have your IP address on the internet radio station,
and go, how are you actually in Britain?
So in that case, here's the other up to you.
But we hear you, Zav, live there,
or just not letting you interrupt the conversation to say to a year you.
Yes, Moss, we hear you.
Ah, well, now I hear me.
I had the headphone plugged in a wrong port.
That's what the repeater bought for. Have you tried the repeater bought?
I have no idea.
Dude, it's the audio test room.
If you go in there,
you'll get a personalized repeater bought
that you can sound checked before popping into a room.
Well, I'm good.
Yes, you are.
I hope.
Anyway, the two long-term rate
is that it's somewhat based on location.
They try and make it based on your own profile that they build around you,
and they are constantly improving that profile on everyone,
and it is sinister, and I don't like it.
Whatever.
What is sinister in the way that all add tech and tracking is sinister?
Because you see, I believe I firmly believe in advertising
as a way to monetize anything on the internet,
because that's how it's always been done,
and how I believe it will always be done.
I don't think that people want to pay for things.
I think people want things for free.
The bottom line is you need to have ads,
but I don't believe that those ads need to be targeted at individuals.
I think they need to be targeted to the content.
So, if you have a great blog post about Bluetooth speakers,
then you should have a ton of ads next to it about Bluetooth speakers.
And if you have a podcast about Linux and open source,
then you should have adverts
that are relevant to the kind of person who would listen to that.
So, let's say, I answer the same question, sir.
Yeah.
I'm going to be listening about AFK.
It's sinister in that it feeds you an echo chamber,
and they don't tell you that that's what they're doing,
and people really like echo chambers,
so they don't bother to check that that's what's being done.
Can I just interject here?
This is my day job.
I work for a company called Adjust.
We are at mobile, had to take company.
So, I get to see all this stuff happening on the back end.
I am absolutely on board.
I don't agree with what we do either.
Yeah, I'm totally against it.
It's just a job that got me into a country that I wanted to live in.
But for a good reason.
I will just say, on this front,
sinister is perhaps the wrong way to look at it.
If only because the algorithms,
quote unquote, that are making these decisions,
are entirely dumb, have no knowledge of what you are who you are.
Don't want to know.
So, when we say personal data is being collected about you,
the thing that's being collected, at least on the mobile,
I mean, web is worse, web is a lot worse.
Don't let me, you know, don't let me give it.
Don't get me wrong.
The web cookie tracking, that stuff is really bad.
But for mobile tech,
basically your device has a GDPR compliant advertising ID on it.
It is a string of numbers, it's a UUID,
basically a string of numbers and text.
It could be reset at any time.
And at that point, any data collected on you
is worthless, frankly,
because it no longer reports back anything associated with you.
The app.
Yeah.
Go ahead, seven, and I'm next.
I was talking about the internet media,
which is read to me the same thing.
We were talking about it.
But if I'm just into internet radio,
and I pick the foreign country,
I don't want to hear that stupid local advert,
I already don't.
In fact, I've already heard that their adverts,
like you would on the radio station,
like it's really just one,
I was getting the local adverts.
But they had done by peer dress advertising
and things like that.
And then I gave up cookies and other things as well,
and into that.
And Google's file, and that's as well.
Well, yes.
But who in, so if you want to listen to a podcast
that sprouts from Indonesia,
who in Indonesia gives a shit if you hear their ad.
So those aren't the ones you're going to pay for your hearing.
Oh, yeah.
The lumber store up the street from you,
however, has discovered that people are listening to podcasts,
and you'll hear an ad for the lumber store up the street from you,
and they want you to get their ad.
And I've got to say,
well done in the execution.
I don't love the implementation or being subject to it,
but well done in its implementation.
Now I forgot my question.
So continue.
Well, that's mostly to hear some local advert when you don't want to.
In fact, I want local advert.
It's a ton of normal radio on the BBC, whatever.
But that's inside the point.
That's not one of the ads.
You either get ads and you pay for the content.
That's neither here nor there.
I'm just saying, if you have to have ads,
it's better for the guy paying for the ad
that he hits someone local.
And frankly, it's probably better for me
if the guy pay into someone local.
Because at least then I got a chance
of keeping a small business in business.
Well, I guess just due to repeat,
I don't know what I'm tendable from,
I have a country,
and then I guess it doesn't really matter.
Well, the research that has been done,
and there is a lot of research around this,
is that actually people find targeted
as much less annoying than general ads.
Because targeted ads actually have a chance
of meaning something to them and what Joe was suggesting,
which was the targeted content ad ads
would probably fit this as well.
But general ads that do not have anything to do with you
have no basis in your prior search history
or in the case of mobile ad tech in your prior installs
are actually considered much more annoying
by most users than ads that actually
means something to them.
This is why when Apple introduced iOS 14,
they introduced this thing called the
SK ad network and with it
the sort of corollary privacy tools,
quote unquote,
which allows people to block the ad ad,
which is that string of numbers I was talking about.
Can I ask you a quick question since this is your jar,
or forget this question if I don't ask now.
Who's more valuable to you?
The average user or people,
I don't want to say like us,
but frankly like us,
who recognize that this is going on.
Everybody knows it's going on.
The most valuable people are...
No.
There's no space book in shit.
Well, yeah, but here's the thing.
So, there are a few things.
There are classifications and if you've ever done
any research into gaming apps you know this,
there are classifications people
that go all the way from basically
not payers to what they call whales.
There are a very small number of users
who are responsible for the vast majority of purchases.
The average user does not purchase things based on advertisements.
It just doesn't happen.
That's not what advertisers know this.
They're casting a very wide net.
They know that they're basically going to be in every
out of no 10,000 people they get.
There's actually only going to be maybe 15 who actually buy,
but they buy a lot.
There are people with a lot of disposable income.
But back to the point that was going on about the podcast,
the most valuable thing when it comes to advertising
and targeted advertising is not you.
It is not knowing about your previous actions.
It's not knowing about your previous behaviour.
It is your location.
Where are you currently?
Because that is what links this up
to different businesses that might have a chance
that's selling you something right now.
When you have apps that are asking for location access,
one of the big reasons for this is it's super important
that they know where you are right now
so that they can start recommending things to you.
That's in the local area that you might go and buy.
That's how companies like mine get asked
to put ads in front of people who are nearby.
That's the most important thing in advertising.
Is it useless to tell?
Go back to your point.
If somebody in Indonesia has an ad,
why would they want me in the UK to hear that ad?
They don't.
It doesn't do anything for them.
It doesn't help them in any way.
Unless they have a online service
through it when they hear.
Unless they have some sort of service
that is online and can be purchased from anywhere.
Say a cloud provider.
For example.
Sure.
Are these things for you?
All of us just didn't say that radio.
Well, but I can really see this point.
But I mean, in this assistant radio,
there's a chat.
I've got a link to Sweden.
I don't want...
Oh, just the Swedish radio statement.
In fact, I might even go to Sweden.
Then I might be gay.
It wasn't there.
And I've probably been gay.
I've never been gay.
Whatever.
You've got more chance of saying something
if it's local, but it's a bit annoying
when you listen to something that's otherwise
and whatever.
You go, I don't know.
Advertisers don't care about what's annoying.
If they didn't, they wouldn't advertise.
Yeah.
They care about...
They care about ROI, return on investment.
Yeah, they care about ROI.
And is to your point,
where it says that they,
maybe I'll go to Sweden one day.
It doesn't matter.
That's one day.
That's not today.
That's not right now.
I want your money now.
That's advertisers.
Is there a way for the internet solar to target locations,
just like local sellers do?
And is there a way for them to determine which locations
are better and worse for them?
Are you into that yet?
Sure.
I mean, there is good research to indicate
when, you know, for example,
going to Joe's point about cloud resellers and stuff like that,
whereas it most useful to hear about that.
In other cities, London, New York, places like that,
where people are working for businesses,
where they're most likely to actually be working in an industry.
So, for example, you're going to get bombarded with that kind of thing in Silicon Valley,
but maybe less so in rural Yorkshire.
But there's no point.
So those are services, yes?
Sure.
Yeah.
Those are like cloud services.
AWS, for example.
How about...
And I'm not arguing with you.
I'm sorry.
This is really fascinating.
It's just spurring questions out of me.
What about material goods?
If I want to sell...
I just bought a new little CNC machine,
and I think I'm doing good with it,
and I want to be able to sell CNC goods
to motorcycleists.
Sorry, that was predictable.
No, I think...
No paper.
You can advertise like this on the local
on that radio station, like podcast, whatever,
because you're not a company.
I think with the answer to that,
if you're just a person,
that's what you kind of get.
I mean, I'm talking specifically,
like, I don't know about radio advertising.
That's the only per few.
I just know about mobile advertising.
And to the point...
That was...
Yes, that is my question.
It is a serial advertising target that people...
No.
I'm stepping up on what I think...
Step up.
Say I want to...
I want to turn this from a hobby into a business,
or I want to turn this from a business
into a slightly larger business.
Can I still...
I'm asking specifically to sport.
If can I still find...
And I sell on the internet.
I'm not just a local guy.
I want to step it up from...
I do good locally.
I want to step it up.
My internet sales can...
Have you dabbled it?
I want to ask a specifically about your platform
that you work for.
I'm trying to frame it outside of that.
But can I...
Do you understand, as a guy who would explain it to me?
How a person...
In that scenario would target a podcast listener...
Physically on the globe.
So, just kind of outline what my business does.
We're in the...
We're in the sort of business of...
What's called...
It's called...
It's a mobile measurement.
What we do...
I'm a technical writer.
I don't get into the actual programming and it's a gritty.
But basically what we do is we attribute things like app installs
to the advertise that that succeeded in getting you to install it.
So, the stuff we're talking about specifically is apps.
But theoretically, from what you're talking about,
there are lots of different factors here.
Advertisers do collect large bases of information about...
Yes, you and your behavior as an individual.
But also, like I say,
the generalized information about the area you live in.
To take your example about motorcycle equipment.
If you happen to be in an area such as...
You are, let's say, you're in Wisconsin.
Okay?
You're in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
And...
You probably did.
It's the home of Harley Davidson.
It's also, let's say, for example, it is currently the Harley Davidson festival.
There is a very good chance that because you're in that location at that time,
even if you yourself do not have a history of doing anything with motorcycles.
You are suddenly surrounded by a bunch of people who are involved with motorcycles
and are very, you know, we are talking thousands here.
So there's a big concentration there,
and they're basically going to catch a cast or net.
So say geographically,
I want to basically target this area for however long.
So it was a business.
So the way that this would work for you is you...
It's a healthy capitalization.
It's geographic.
Yeah, there's loads of different...
This stuff is really complicated,
but the way it would work for you as a business owner now
is you would go to an advertiser and say,
I am going to give you basically this much money.
And I want you to put my ads in front of people
and the return on investment I want from that is this much in sales.
And the advertisers job to then use their body of knowledge
to put that ad in front of as many people as possible.
My software, for example, the software I work on,
if this were an app, for example,
you have an app and you want to advertise it.
The software that I work on would basically determine
who gets paid for the install.
So when a user clicks an ad and gets taken to the app store
to install that app, an advertiser needs to be paid.
Now you might have got three advertisers
advertising the app in the same way.
You need to know which one of them got that done.
And so basically advertisers are always vying
to be the one who got the install or to got the sale or whatever it was.
So they will use their vast knowledge of human behavior,
existing human behavior, existing user behavior,
but also yes, geography and patterns of behavior in a certain area
to target that ad where they're going to get the best ROI.
So yeah, it's one of those things.
I mean, it's sinister as a word for it.
Again, sinister implies I think a motivated person behind this
who is doing all of this.
But in reality, it's a bunch of dumb systems that know nothing
being strapped together.
And it's actually, like I say, you peek into one of these systems.
They don't know who you are.
They don't care.
They just know your, this UUID that's associated with your device,
not with you.
Sorry to interrupt.
Sorry to interrupt, man.
But I would love to talk to you about this properly,
when I'm not terribly drunk and on a shitty morgue
or connection in the wind.
So if just like at me somewhere or send me an email or something,
because I really want to talk to you in depth about this.
If you have time to an inclination to do so,
but I really would love to talk to you more about this.
Bad news is I've decided tonight he's a 120 pounds an hour.
It's sure.
Well, I do have those little dollars, you know.
I mean, like I say, I'm a technical writer,
and my job is really very perfunctory.
My job is basically to look at APIs and tell you how they work.
But we did, you've tried this to explain technology.
Your job is basically the same as mine.
But I talk and you write.
It's very similar.
Yeah.
It's just that I don't, I don't write about these,
sort of, you know,
I have a very limited purview of what I write about.
But we did do about three weeks of onboarding where we got this all explained to us.
And this industry is constantly evolving and my company is one of the ones at the forefront of it.
So, you know, they, they all,
That's why I want to talk to you.
To me.
That's why I want to talk to you.
To be totally fair, fair, sport.
I've asked you pretty much only marketing questions in your technical writer,
and there's not a lot of overlap there,
but really you've done a hero's job of it.
Yeah.
I mean, the great advantages.
We work with marketers specifically,
and they are the ones who come to us to ask us to implement new features to,
you know, handle these new upcoming features that they,
they really want to get in with.
But the best, the best people to talk to about this stuff would be the actual advertising agencies.
You know, it would be,
people that tell us about their own companies.
Our parent company is one call, I think it's an Apple oven or something.
And they are one of the market leaders in the actual tech behind advertising.
Like they're really, like, they're real big on this.
And it is worth looking into these different ad agencies and seeing how they do what they do.
Because they'd be good at explaining, at least in a sort of obfuscated way,
how they get your ads in front of people.
And it's fascinating.
So it really is a fascinating subject.
Like I say, I personally, if I were given the choice of working in mobile ad tech,
it wouldn't have been my choice.
But where I work is a very good company in terms of,
you can point, you're being employed there. They're very nice.
They're very, they were willing to take me on as a, as a writer when I had no previous experience with it.
So can't complain.
You have to go.
The office, so can you do it remote?
I am fully remote.
I do go into the office sometimes.
But now I live, I live, I'm like 45 minutes away.
So I don't bother much the time.
Can I, can I rotate the gem to see a different facet?
I don't want to actually transition.
Sorry, I'm talking like a podcaster. What kinds of advertising?
Because we haven't discussed, you know, direct payment of a podcast.
What other kinds of advertising are all of us willing to put up with?
If it's not this directed advertising that comes at you based on where you're standing when you download the podcast.
What else are you like just as an example, the live read,
or that's the only example I can think of.
I should not sit or I'm one good example.
This actually for me is there's a really good podcast called maintainable.
And maintainable is produced by a company and the only advertising they do is for themselves.
So basically they use it as a vehicle to advertise themselves.
And I mean, I will never use their services.
They, they work as a specifically Ruby on Rails consultancy firm,
which is not a software product I use or or something I would have need.
But I appreciate that advertising firm for Ruby on Rails consultancy.
Well, sure. Yeah.
Well, another example of that is thinking elixir,
which is a very, very specific podcast about elixir,
the programming language, which is a cart remember what it's derived from.
I'm sure someone will tell me right now.
And that's sponsored by,
oh, there are some big company in the elixir world anyway.
And that's their whole thing is to just advertise themselves.
And they pay an editor and all rest of it to produce a professional sounding podcast.
That's that's one route to go down.
And you know, it's something I've explored as well.
And people, you know, I've had meetings with people and got close and done pilots.
And and well, for a while kind of did that for a living for 18 months in a way.
So can I ask other than then Joe and Spore of the other people in the room who were listening.
Would you listen to a podcast like that that just puts on basically,
I mean, it sounds like propaganda to me.
It sounds like self hosted self circling propaganda.
Anybody else in the room, what do you think?
Well, I know that we have upwards of a thousand people listening to Distrohopper Digest.
So I really don't see how we couldn't have a niche podcast for the people that wanted to listen to a niche podcast.
Yeah, but I'm not asking about niche podcast.
I'm asking like your your bread and butter stuff or even finish your niche podcast.
The guy making it says, hey, I can't afford to do this anymore.
If I don't start getting some money coming in, what are you willing to put up with?
What would you prefer to have presented to you as his or her monetization?
Plan.
My first preference is donations.
If we do go to ads, we want it to be ads that we support that we use.
Not something that just happens beyond the topic.
But it's really not my friend.
Yeah, I'm really on the fringe of this.
I've taken heat for promoting my podcast as being ad free.
Indeed, we've clashed about it and I've knocked you pretty much everywhere I can think of because of it.
Because you have publicly said, you've probably talked about advertising as being like a really negative thing.
And you know, you're entitled to a opinion.
No, I'm not talking about talking about you from my.
I am not my current advertising as a negative thing.
I'm referring to most of my listeners seeing it as a negative thing and me not needing advertising money.
So it's a promotional thing.
If you want to reach people that don't want to hear advertising in a podcast, you have to promote that you don't have advertising in your podcast.
I guess so.
But you know, if you just want to do something as a hobby, then good luck.
But you know, I did this for a living man.
So I'm not going to do down for what you do.
And I don't think you should be putting down me down for what I do.
Yeah, for Joe.
And I'm touching. I am loyal who's not here at the moment.
We do a podcast together. We don't take ads.
We never want to take ads. If it gets to the point where that if we need to take advertisements or to collect money,
we kind of decided as a group that we don't want to continue the podcast at that point.
So I mean, thank God for free software podcasting is is monetarily cheap enough that we've been able to continue doing this.
I mean, it's hard and wild.
Do it and allow me to tag along.
Hi, Taj. Have a new year.
Happy new year.
Yeah, totally. Like if you just want to do it as a hobby, then yeah, thanks to free and open software and various other services.
You can do it pretty much completely for free at this point and not even need any donations.
Maybe like a domain.
If you want to splash out 10 bucks a year or 20 bucks for one of those fancy domains.
And otherwise, yeah, it can be completely free. But that's just not what I went into this thinking.
I went into this thinking that I want to make podcasts about Linux and open source, not shit.
Like they were when I came into this nearly 10 years ago.
And I want to try and raise the quality.
And I want to make people actually do good shows.
And the only way I can do that is by doing that myself.
And so I spent a long time getting good at making shows about Linux.
And the only way I can do that is by getting paid to do it because I'm not just going to do it totally for free.
And so I made it my job and now it is my job and when some people come along and say, well,
Well, when people come into my social channels like my telegram group and start advertising their podcast as being we've got no adverse.
So we're better or we're great because we've got no adverse like
I'm not ever saying we're better because we have no adverse.
I'm just saying we have no adverse.
You have an attitude about this that I don't have.
And I don't understand why you're upset with me for promoting my product the way it is.
This debate sounds way older than the however many of us sitting down tonight.
It is way older.
And I very nearly left when I realized it was here.
And then he started talking about it in the chat and and riled me up a little bit.
And I'm really trying not to to get angry and leave.
But I think I might have to because I just.
Well, no, please don't agree with this.
Well, you don't have to leave because you're doing a disagree with somebody.
That's what's wrong with the world today.
Just learn to communicate with this.
Let's communicate with people.
Like it is literally my job is not about communicating with people.
Sometimes you just have to accept that some people can't be communicated with man.
And you have to just block them.
And you know, once you get to a certain.
I don't want to chat.
I'm saying there's like at least 10, 12 other people in the room right now.
And you're saying you need to think things that we're interested in.
And so is Zavalia saying interesting things.
So I don't know.
I guess I'm just asking you for my own.
I've been a faction just stick around and just we're having a conversation.
I've got questions for you.
You've said stuff that's that's prompted questions in my head.
Having nothing to do with Zavalia.
Can we put a zival moment?
Zavalia.
What does Zavalia?
I say don't problem with Joe.
Joe has a problem with me.
I don't understand it.
I'm trying to decide.
Can you put aside?
I can't do it.
I can do it.
And all together.
Yeah.
Just if he shuts up and just stops talking.
And then we can put it aside.
No problem.
And I'll keep talking to the rest of you.
No problem.
Yeah.
But if he's going to keep buttoning in, I'm going to leave.
It's as simple as that.
I've no time for the fellow.
So it's a great dream drama.
It's an open room.
But you're open to join and you're open to leave.
And if you keep talking, I'm going to leave.
It's as simple as that.
You're all to open to chase somebody out of the room.
And if you want to be obnoxious.
I did that to somebody one time.
And I still haven't been given myself.
And he probably hasn't forgiven me for it.
I don't want to be obnoxious.
And you're being hurt as being obnoxious.
And I'm not only like him.
Only just just chill out when he's part of it.
Oh, yeah.
I'm in the lead after another day.
That's all I'm asking.
Okay.
I can leave it.
Sorry.
I was a way while listening to a bit.
And I see there's a heat struggling or some sort of habit.
Can I be the.
Well, I don't know the piece.
But I want to ask a question to Joe actually going with what he's saying.
Just now about podcasting and how he decided that he was going to be a bit different.
Ten years ago, they weren't particularly good or whatever.
So it sounds like Joe is getting some making some money doing podcasting.
It's what I do for a living.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think I talked to you briefly before now.
You want the podcast people.
But it might might be not.
I'll count with you.
I'm not sure.
You're going up on there anyway.
It on HBO at some stage.
And this might actually be a good time.
So I can word this right.
Basically, is it as open source a pastime hobby?
Or is it a job?
And what I mean is like, so I know that a lot of open source stuff is voluntary.
It's hobbyist.
It's it's done for fun.
But then some things are done as a pastime.
And then the question can be, are you a professional model?
So in your case, are you a professional podcast or would you say now?
If you see my question when I'm trying to ask, I don't know if it makes sense.
I think I can understand.
Because you're interested.
So just the hobby.
Yes.
Okay.
So to be clear, my only source of income is making podcasts.
Yeah.
They are almost all about that.
Hold on.
Seb, you really can't key up when anybody else is keyed up.
Instantly causes.
Yeah.
It makes Joe and anybody else unintelligible.
Sorry, Joe.
No, the alcohol makes me unintelligible.
No.
It makes you looser in the lips that I love it.
It's wiggling my hips.
It makes me almost say a word that gets me fired from certain jobs.
So anyway.
So right.
Yes.
Why do to be clear to everyone who doesn't know who I am?
What I do for a living is make podcasts about Linux.
So basically the joke is I talked to my friends about Linux for a living.
So basically what everyone has been doing here tonight and for the last like 50 something
hours I think or whatever long this has been going in it.
Anyway, that's the joke is that's what I do for a living.
But in reality, what I do is I craft those that are entertaining and amusing and informative
and thought-provoking and not too long, not too short and whatever.
And I also have to sell a bunch of ads and I have to deal with the finances of that.
And I have to be a terrible, terrible, this admin in a sense as well.
So yeah, that's what I do for a living is make shows about Linux.
And the question about this idea of open source being a hobbyist and ever versus a professional and ever.
There are two types of people who contribute to open source.
There are people who do it in their spare time and there are people who do it for a living.
And that vendor diagram is not two separate circles.
There are often people who contribute to open source projects for a company like Red Hat,
let's say, or Chronicle, or Sousa, whoever owns them this week.
Yep, I've been around a while.
It's not even circles, dude.
They overlap in weird non-uclidean ways.
Well, yeah, I was simplifying, obviously.
What I'm saying is this, that to be an open source person does not necessarily mean that you are paid all the time or
a volunteer all the time.
There's overlap, but there's a myth that open source software is all volunteers.
And the reality of that is so far from that.
Most people who work on open source software get paid to do so.
And, you know, you could argue that, well, most open source software only has one person who
develops it and maintains it on some GitHub or GitHub or whatever repository.
But I'm talking about the open source software that millions of people actually use.
Put your hands away.
Even if it is just that one person, that one person still has to sustain themselves
day to day, week to week, year to year.
Yeah, and so the best way to do that is to get a company to pay.
Well, to get your thing popular enough that a company will pay you to work on it.
Because they are depending on it and they realise that it's not a good idea to depend on something that someone's doing in their evenings and weekends.
But that's like a whole other debate.
But the best way of doing it or that that's the only way,
because the best I can see that is being like a incendiary word in the rest of a completely agreeable sense.
It's a complicated issue.
The funding of open source is not something we can tackle in 50 hours,
500 hours of discussion on mumble.
We can't even solve this project, I'll go home.
No.
We can have a hundred new year.
HVR things and still not come up with a solution to the problem of funding or software.
But all I'm saying is this, my business model is pretty straightforward, right?
I make great shows that a bunch of people listen to,
and then I sell as many ads as I can that are based on the content
and offer people the opportunity to listen to those shows without any adverts
if they're willing to pay a certain number of dollars per month.
It's a relatively straightforward business model.
It doesn't involve any tracking as such.
It just involves a tracking of how many people are downloading.
How many thousand people listen to that episode?
That's all I'm really interested in.
To some extent, what country are you in,
but that's as granular as it gets?
What's the demographics?
Well, I don't need tracking software to tell me that it's 20 to 50-year-old white men
who listen to my shows.
I just have to go to any event that I organise,
and that fucking tells me who's listening to my shows.
So, okay, in that case, my question is,
you would say you are, well, two questions a day.
One is, you would say you are professional podcast, yes.
But what do you do?
So, that makes you, you're not into the hobbyist.
That's the first question, yes.
Well, I make a living out of it.
Whether that makes me professional or not,
is a matter of humor, but yes,
I am a professional podcast right now at this time.
On the first of January, 2023,
that is currently my profession is making podcasts, yes.
Yes, yes.
That's going to take that as an answer.
And also, the whole thing that does the debate,
and that's, I kind of want to talk about that in this public speaking,
and speak to them, thinking of doing a march,
and probably speaking group for seven minutes,
but there are some people, you know,
the steam people, so I can do it in my open source.
They just basically have so much of their free time,
the hobbyists, that's their big,
that's what they do in this fair time,
not even getting paid for it.
I think what people overlook is that people think,
hey, you're not doing anything that good,
and that's what you get in paid,
but that's like, hang on a minute,
there's loads of open source contributions
that are absolutely amazing that people do from programming,
to caught testing, to translation,
to documentation, to quality shorts,
and they're not getting paid,
but I think there's some really amazing things,
some great, really poor, great projects,
come to the community now,
have an example, not just that,
and I think that's the point I want to try and make,
somewhere that people can do some really amazing things,
an open source is one way to do it,
because it allows you to do whatever you want pretty much,
and you don't have to be paid,
but there are people getting paid as well doing things,
it's been a bit of both.
I just like to put in here,
because I'm an open source maintainer in my spare time.
The software is the smallest parts,
of many open source projects,
and actually the writing of the software
often is what you spend the least amount of time doing,
and you say, you know, you can do what you want with it.
It's not really true,
at the moment you start getting users,
they start to dictate how,
and not dictate in like a dictatorship sort of way,
but they start to influence very heavily
how you build the software going forward,
and that can lead to you having to put a lot of time
into things you never really wanted to.
You have no interest in,
you have to put a lot of time into research,
and understanding, and, you know,
conversation.
So in that way,
it's kind of similar to what Joe was saying,
where it's like,
a podcast is not just, you know,
recording yourself talking.
There's a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff,
and that's actually where the money tends to go.
So we've had, you know, we've had,
we've been very lucky in the past.
We've had some funding,
and the vast majority of it seems to go on,
just keeping the project managed.
Very little of it actually goes on the code,
to get written.
It's the stuff around the code.
It's the talking to people,
it's the research,
it's the planning,
it's the sort of,
continued sort of conversations with people,
that's where it gets really,
expensive and challenging.
I think, you know,
consoles.
Yeah, I mean,
I think marketing depends on the project,
obviously, again,
but I do think marketing is a barrier
that a lot of projects will have
proper struggle with,
or they will be hard to do,
but marketing is kind of,
it's important,
or you're not going to get the users,
and then who's going to be using this stuff anyway.
Yeah,
marketing is an interesting,
an interesting conundrum for,
you know, open source projects,
and particularly,
I mean,
we've had a particular problem recently,
of course,
this whole Twitter debacle went on,
and people came over from Twitter,
to master them.
Now,
master it on,
occupies a similar space to us.
We're all,
we're both a federal,
federal project.
And so,
we were really sort of excited
that people would come over to,
you know,
to Funkwell,
check it out.
But of course,
because the,
the software was kind of in a,
it's kind of in a,
a state to the moment of in-betweenness,
their first impression of it was,
I don't understand,
it's confusing,
it's ugly,
and all this stuff,
and so we actually ended up getting
bad press from people coming over,
in light of what happened at Twitter,
and that's,
that's a really challenging to do,
because,
you know,
we can't show them the results of all the work
that we've done until it's finished,
and that I think is actually a,
a lot of open source projects,
sort of hit,
is that they get attention at the
wrong time,
and that can be just as bad as
not getting attention at all.
Maybe,
I don't,
I don't know if MasterDone
was ready to take on those people,
like the servers,
but suddenly there's a massive
in-look,
as well as everyone's doing,
but anything in tech people,
where you're not,
no,
MasterDone,
MasterDone.
Well,
yeah,
and look at what's happening with
Matrix,
I don't know if you've read the blog post,
at the,
you know,
I find it,
and she'll die a trace
that they're in right now,
because,
you know,
they didn't,
well,
I don't know,
I'm not going to pass
judgment on it,
but they are a victim
of their own success,
let's say.
And also,
of the issue,
where people,
companies will use
staff and not pay for it,
not contribute to it
in any way,
because it's free in open source,
so therefore it's free as in there.
Yeah,
and I think that Matrix also suffered
from this problem of,
a lot of places use Matrix
and use specifically element,
as it is,
others such as the German government
have made their own clients
and things like that.
But what they haven't done,
then is made things that are useful
to the project as a whole,
so while,
of course,
they are upstreaming,
they're not upstreaming anything of use,
because it's all just very specific stuff
that only the German government would want.
And that's part of the problem as well,
because that creates,
it sounds helpful,
the German government's picking it up,
they're going to,
they're going to contribute code.
And of course,
they contribute,
but they contribute some useful stuff,
sometimes,
and that actually creates a lot more administrative overhead
for the upstream developers
to sift through all of that,
and make sure they're not including stuff
that wouldn't be useful elsewhere.
So it's a real,
I mean,
if the German government aren't paying
or Matrix,
that's a poor,
frankly,
it wouldn't surprise me.
I've heard of Matrix,
but I don't know if,
but what I'm going to say is,
or it could be like,
hey,
pick,
so you're using minutes,
make movies great,
although it turns out,
they've got doing commercial programming,
that's another point.
What I'm going to say,
well,
obviously,
with the software license,
if a company goes and goes,
hey,
look,
it's DPL code,
we'll just put that on TV,
software,
so I'm picking that sound,
that about,
then,
well,
says things like,
the software feed and controversy,
and the FFF,
obviously,
and FFFE,
as well,
and the UK does,
or is it open UK that,
one of those organizations,
you know,
they'll go to court over it,
potentially,
like,
you're both in the UK,
no,
you need to put in this your code,
you need to do stuff,
you know,
I mean,
I'm sure.
Yeah,
it's a real shame,
because,
on a sort of personal,
ethics level,
I really like the idea
of much more permissive licenses,
such as,
the MIT license,
and the two clause BSD license,
like those to me,
are much cleaner licenses than the GPS,
but unfortunately,
because of the,
the problem that,
Joe's highlighted,
if you use those licenses,
you run the risk of people taking your work,
and just not contributing back.
Sometimes you get lucky,
if,
in the example,
I would give there is,
Netflix heavily uses free BSD for their caching,
and they are massive contributors back to the free BSD,
which is wonderful.
And in their case,
it makes financial sense,
because,
you know,
they upstream it,
and it's up to the free BSD,
maintainers to maintain it from there,
but it's a positive,
net positive.
They do a lot of improvements.
But the vast majority of things,
if you,
if you do make them with a permissive license,
companies will take advantage of that.
And that's why viral licensing,
such as GPL exists,
you know,
and it's a real question you have to ask yourself,
when you're,
when you're starting a software project is,
do I,
do I want to make this under the license that I think is,
you know,
my personal favor,
which in my cases MIT,
or do I need to protect myself from,
you know,
future fevery.
And,
you know,
these kinds of decisions are difficult,
and they have long lasting ramifications,
for how your software goes.
So,
there's no easy answer to any of this.
I actually had a question though,
for Joe.
When you said, you know,
you sell ads.
I've not actually,
I don't listen to many podcasts,
I've not come across it,
but is the format of that that you read ads,
as part of the show?
Yes.
So it's baked in host red mid rolls,
in your jargon.
Yeah.
So like I sell,
ideally a bunch of ads,
but sometimes just single ones to companies.
And then,
yeah,
we agree a 60 second script,
and then I do my advert,
okay,
this episode is sponsored.
I,
this company,
go to this company,
is URL.com slash global bar.
They're great.
And you should check them out.
And progress.
So that's,
this company.com slash LNL,
or whatever.
So yeah.
That's,
that's how I do,
yeah,
I do direct sales.
I have,
I have things in the works with agencies,
but I found that to be an immensely frustrating experience,
here the two.
But we'll see,
that's kind of why I want to talk to you about this properly,
like privately and when I'm sorry.
Yeah,
I mean,
I don't know how much I'll be,
but I'm happy to see what I know.
But I was just going to ask then,
for,
and I'm guessing the way that this is worked out,
and the way that it's,
you know,
the sort of pain that comes out of this is worked out.
It's based on the number of people who head to the,
the link you specified,
and,
you know,
that's how the payouts happen.
Well,
I don't want to go too far into my corporate secrets,
as it were,
but now it's based on the,
the number of people who regularly download,
and what you get there is a CPM,
cost per million,
cost per thousand.
And so,
seeing have,
I don't know,
what's the simple thing,
10,000 people listening,
so that your mod's player is 10,
so I say you,
you're going to charge them,
a million dollars per thousand people who listen.
It is orders of magnitude less than that, obviously.
But let's say it's $5 per thousand people who listen,
and you have 10,000 people listening,
on average,
so therefore you charge them five times ten,
is $50 per average.
Obviously those figures are not the real ones,
but,
so that's the sort of traditional baked-in way,
my understanding of,
dynamically inserted ads is that,
it's more a case of you agree a CPM,
and so say it's $5 per thousand people,
and they say right,
well our budget is,
about $5,000,
so therefore we will pay for thousand impressions,
so it's more like the old school,
you know,
banner ads and text ads,
so it's,
they will dynamically insert into the first,
thousand downloads there ad,
and that can either be programmatic as they call it,
which is read by just some voice actor person
in a studio somewhere,
or it can be hostred,
and you get more money for the hostred ones.
And so you just say in their platform,
you know,
you upload your M3,
and you say right,
10 minutes and 45 seconds,
here's the ad break,
and so day then,
dynamically insert a thousand of those that people have paid,
you know,
the first thousand people that download that episode,
they dynamically insert the advert
for this mattress company,
whatever,
and then once a thousand done,
that's it,
and you get paid.
So it's sort of quite a different way of doing it,
to how I have traditionally done it,
which is,
we have X number of people downloading,
you know,
X number of thousands of people,
and so that multiplier,
we will multiply by the CPM number,
which we will agree,
which obviously depends on the company dealing with,
and you know,
negotiation skills, et cetera,
and you know,
I've heard of CPM's as low as $5,
or as much as $150,
and somewhere in between,
like,
as most of the deals that I have done,
let's just say.
Okay, now that's interesting,
I ask mostly because,
the project I work on,
we have rudimentary podcasting tools,
and, you know,
as I mentioned cast apart there,
a direct,
I wouldn't say there are competitors
to us,
we're not competing really,
but they have done a lot of work around,
monetization,
and we have rather more,
hesitant to get into the monetization side of things,
specifically around advertising.
We really don't want to have,
like you say,
dynamic advertising,
be something that we offer,
something like host red advertising.
I'm trying to just,
I didn't really understand how it worked before this,
but it would explain why people find things
such as the viewership numbers,
or the listenership numbers so important,
and it's just something for me to bear in mind,
when we come to revisit podcasting as a feature set,
that having better analytics
is a super important way of getting people,
you know,
giving people more avenues for payment than just,
you know,
what the,
the we prefer,
which is,
you know,
direct endorsement or direct donation,
because,
so let me just,
let me just say this,
let me just say this right,
that unless you have,
like a million,
plus downloads a year,
well,
I don't know,
let's just say,
hundreds of thousands,
hundreds of downloads per year,
advertisers not interested these days,
generally speaking,
is my understanding of the market right now.
Yeah,
and let me also say this right,
that even in a situation where you've got,
an audience that fully understands that,
you know,
the donation model,
or pay what you can as elementary do,
you know,
the phrase that is,
pay what you can rather than pay,
what you want,
but anyway,
basically the donation model,
you are never going to crack more than a few,
percent of people who are willing to pay for it,
on the answer that,
but is,
is my understanding,
and look,
if you,
it,
find me someone who is cracked more than a few,
percent,
and I want to go for beers with them,
and pick their brains on how the fuck they did that.
Yeah,
and I,
I totally agree,
that,
you know,
we've,
like I say,
we've struggled with it,
we've been looking into it,
and we are of mostly donation funded projects,
but there's a big difference between a project,
and a,
you know,
an individually created,
you know,
podcast,
I think,
but that's why we,
we like this idea of having,
let's say that,
if you give a value proposition to users,
for using this,
this part,
for my talk about retrobeats,
and you say,
okay,
let's say you gave five euros a month,
a month,
to,
you know,
and you just had that allocated,
and it spread,
between your most listened podcast,
randomly,
whichever ones you most listen to,
or whatever ones you most interact with,
or whatever it may be,
or random,
who knows,
I,
I wonder if that's,
and,
and you know,
spread that across multiple users,
who might be willing to do it.
I wonder if that,
would start to sort of yield results,
because at the moment,
we're seeing the problem that I mentioned about whales,
where you have a lot,
and most people will not pay anything,
and a few will pay thousands,
you know,
and,
well,
let me stop doing it,
because what you're talking about exists,
right,
what you're talking about exists,
and it is called podcasting 2.0,
and there are a whole bunch of new podcasting,
new podcasting now,
and,
yeah,
those people do that,
and certain other things.
It works,
so you're correct.
I'm glad you found a piece of it that works for you,
too,
that's best,
effing awesome,
self-sensoring,
you're sorry.
Are we allowed to say fuck here?
Well,
we are,
but then Apple says you can't put,
like,
a kid smiley face on it,
which I never thought should have been on it in the first place.
So fuck Apple did it.
Just,
on the other hand,
you know,
you might,
something I say might be so,
effing brilliant,
you want to play it for your kids,
so I watch out for that on my part.
Fair enough.
But anyway,
the,
the dream of podcasting 2.0 is genius.
It's exactly what you were just talking about.
It's,
it's the idea that,
everybody contributes a tiny bit,
you know,
they decide right.
My budget for the month,
or for the year,
is $5.10,
or whatever.
Hold on,
that's a very small part of podcasting 2.0.
The financial part of it is what everyone focuses on.
So it looks huge,
because it's under a lot of magnifying glasses.
It's just a wedge of the pie, though.
That's literally what we've been
in about for the last time.
It's,
it's monetizing things generally.
So,
yes,
of course.
Yes,
but you said podcasting 2.0.
So I would hate for anyone who hasn't heard of podcasting 2.0
to think that,
everything we've talked about for the last hour,
encapsulate podcasting 2.0.
Podcasting 2.0.
All right.
Well,
let me cut to the chase then.
All right.
Let me cut to the chase then.
And the,
the kind of the chase is two podcasting
that podcasting 2.0 is tainted by crypto bullshit.
And so,
therefore,
I want nothing to do with it,
because crypto is positive,
bullshit.
Correct.
I mean,
if you want to agree,
if you want to disagree with me,
I mean,
we can.
Yes,
disagree on this.
Can I have 10 seconds to disagree?
I mean,
you can,
but I'll probably take my headphones off.
No,
no,
I have,
I would like to rebut a piece of what you just said,
not the entire thing in a reasonable way.
And if you think I'm being unreasonable,
I would appreciate that feedback as well.
Right.
Well,
let me just say this.
Crypto bullshit or not bullshit.
Are you saying that?
Are you asking that?
That's the question.
It's like a Y slash and crypto is bullshit.
Y slash and underscore.
That wasn't my question.
Do I have to answer your question before you let it remind?
No.
Feel free to answer it.
To ask me any question you'd like so.
Okay.
And I will answer yours next.
If you still are interested in what I care,
you can cut that part out of podcasting 2.0.
You don't have to use that at all.
Right.
That wasn't that was a statement.
Are you aware that you can cut that out of podcasting 2.0.
It is still a marvelous landscape without that included.
That was my question.
Right.
So,
right.
So my answer to that question is,
of course, I'm aware that the monetization aspect of podcasting 2.0 is.
So it's very good.
It's much one of the aspects of it.
And chat is new tags.
And it loads of other cool stuff.
Right.
I totally, I'm going to totally aware of that.
So you think you're asking?
No.
Let me.
Go ahead.
I'll get from you.
No.
You can't.
You know,
you don't put words in my mouth, right?
It's not cool.
Just because.
The rest of it was cool.
No.
I said that there are aspects of it,
which are.
Okay.
Not the rest of it.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Correct.
Right.
I should not.
However.
Thank you.
Right.
Just imagine this, right?
Just imagine the most delicious food that you can imagine.
Maybe that's a chocolate cake.
Maybe that's a delicious English breakfast fry up.
Maybe it's the most delicious.
I haven't heard this before.
Right.
But just imagine you've cooked.
Just whoever's listening right now.
Just imagine you've cooked the perfect meal.
Or someone else has cooked it for you.
Friends of yours, maybe you've paid whatever.
You are sitting down to the most delicious meal in the world.
Right?
It's better than anything else you've eaten.
Right?
However, on the same table,
there is a big plate of steaming shit.
And that is crypto.
And that has tainted the entire meal.
And crypto has tainted the entire podcast in 2.0.
And so that's it.
You can't just.
Even if you even if you take that plate of steaming shit.
Oh, the room.
It's still stinks.
And you're not hungry anymore for the show.
One delicious food.
Joe may I out of love.
I'm saying this to you.
If the table's big enough and full enough,
it doesn't matter what somebody far enough away is doing.
It's, you know what I mean?
It hurts to shut people out.
I have no pain in shutting crypto grows out because that shit is
fucking bullshit, scam,
pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme shit that has no room
in anything that I'm willing to touch.
It's fucking bullshit.
And we get fucked.
Yes, I agree.
I said it.
Would you like to hear my answer since you asked me?
I agreed.
I would answer.
All right.
Let's hear it.
If you still care, if you actually care,
if you're just, if you're just challenging me,
don't, then, but if you care what I think about crypto,
then I will answer.
Yeah, I'd love to hear it.
What are you?
What are you hard Len?
My friend.
What are you hard Len?
What am I?
Huddling hurtling?
I missed that word.
Huddling.
It's, it's, it's crypto's fake for holding.
What, what are you?
How much crypto do you have?
Oh, zero.
I don't care about crypto on the least.
That's funny.
So, therefore, less than I have.
Because I've got 0.0 or something
of a Bitcoin and like $700 coin.
No, I give you a little negative.
It's, and I try to avoid it.
Okay, there is a little bit of negative crypto I lied.
That's not true.
My IRC bros were telling me buy crypto.
This buy Bitcoin.
This thing is so cool.
It's 11 cents and it's going to be worth something someday.
Even if it's worth a buck, you're a freaking hundred thousand there.
But they're buy it, buy it, buy it, buy it, buy it.
And I didn't buy any.
And that's my one regret regarding crypto currencies.
The rest I don't give a shit.
That's my honest answer.
And, and I respectfully, and giving you the answer
because I said I would if you answered my question and you did.
And thank you, Joe.
I appreciate it.
I still have another question for the chat,
but it's an entire subject change.
Well, that's one of the reasons I stopped listening to the Jupiter shows
because they seem to be so tied into the crypto aspects
that it just really turns me off.
It's like their show doesn't exist without crypto.
And I used a lot of listening to those guys.
Yeah, I think I'm personally in agreement with Joe here.
Like we as a project have fought so hard against crypto.
And we have put out public statements basically saying
any suggestion of crypto.
You have to fork the project to do that.
We're not, we're not integrated with that.
But I need to go and do some reading up on podcasting 2.0
because I really don't understand the sort of spec of it.
And I wonder how many of the features you could lift
from podcast 2.0.
Because you can't lift all of them because it looks like
some of this is about sort of creating a registry.
But you could certainly lift some of the technical aspects,
such as the, you know, the chat to marking and stuff like that.
You don't need to lift it.
That shit exists already outside of the podcasting 2.0.
The whole thing is just intimately tied in with crypto bullshit.
That can just get fucked.
Yeah, hold on.
Joe, that's super interesting before he's read it.
When you're done reading this, you're going to check up on it.
Will you please come on our podcast on your random and help us with it?
Tage has read into it and he loved it except for the money part
and he couldn't stand listening to it.
Oh, Tage is here.
Tage, I don't mean to speak for you.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
I'm looking at this, you know, from the perspective of we need to go back
into looking at podcasts again.
I just want, I want to go in and understand.
Because we have rude, like I say, rudimentary podcasts.
What we don't have things like chat to mark, isn't that kind of thing?
But after markers are, you know, awesome.
Album art is awesome.
Chapter art is unrigin' believable.
So you're not something that's different from the pages.
But that's why it's interesting to me.
And that's why I'd love if you come on our podcast.
And now I will show up and let you see what I wish.
I was just going to say, like, for me, I would agree.
The biggest contention.
And we read through castapods, list of features.
And, you know, we've suggested castapods.
People who want some of those more, you know, advanced features.
But we've really put off by the crypto stuff.
And that's why we don't really recommend recommended too much anymore.
It's still a step in the right direction in some ways.
If you're moving away from, like, Spotify's your option for publishing.
And you say, actually, I'll go with castapod.
In my opinion, that's a good move.
But I agree.
I'm in agreement with, with thing about cryptocurrency.
But that value for value thing that I'm looking at.
That's something that you could do, like I say,
with a traditional payment system backing thing.
Where you basically just have no interest in.
No one's interested.
That's the problem.
No, no, go do it.
In theory, you could do it.
But no one wants to pay for shit.
That's free on the internet.
Absolutely.
Exactly for all.
People who get, you're wrong.
Okay.
No, we know this.
We're not.
He's not looking for a statistic majority.
He's looking for enough to get by.
Or maybe not even him, somebody.
They're looking for a server cost because they can't afford a server.
And maybe I'm the only guy that pays and it supports it.
Or maybe I just throw into the bucket so that the guy who's given it to me doesn't have to give me ads.
Or whatever other reason.
It's not where this was going.
Right, right.
Yeah, right, right.
No, no, no, right.
Yes.
If by pay for the thing, you mean literally pay for the infrastructure costs of,
you know, a $5 VPS and maybe a $20 list in account.
Or whatever else.
At my day job, I build the internet.
Yes, I do that too.
On my personal time.
And this is what he's talking about.
Can you let him finish?
Well, no, because what I'm getting at here is right.
No, you can't have that.
No, no, because the problem is that we don't,
we have not established what paying for something means.
Right.
You can pay for the.
The practical infrastructure.
That's very nice in the time that we have with the words.
A lot of to us with the amount of people we have.
That's way too big of a topic.
Come on.
I think that I think that I get what is what's being said here.
Basically, when you're when I'm what I'm talking about is essentially donations in kind.
Essentially, you know, give put money into a pot and have that be distributed.
But that doesn't give you a certain thing.
You're not actually purchasing something.
Whereas if you subscribe to a podcast on say,
Substack or, you know, Patreon,
you do get something.
You get an advert free thing.
Or maybe you get some premium episodes that you don't get elsewhere.
So I do get that.
And yeah, that's that's certainly something that, you know,
I don't think we have a solution to our solution.
There's more about for those people who are sort of,
you know, there's sort of people who help pay for a.
Mastered on server that they use.
Those generous people who might be willing to, you know,
basically, uh,
distribution money between the content that they listen to,
that be that music or podcasts.
But I great.
That wouldn't be enough to make a living off of.
And that's why I was asking you,
actually, Joe, about the, um,
how do that, how do your ad reads work?
Because, you know,
we need to think about other ways that we can help with that kind of thing.
How do you work with it?
We're very much for,
uh,
because I wasn't sure how the, um,
how the sort of payouts or ad reads work,
how the, um, you know,
how the actual sets up for that works.
But I'd know, I guess.
Yeah.
We're, um,
but we're a platform for hobbyists at the end of the day when it comes to podcast.
So we're much more about music.
And there's a different challenge to, uh,
selling music.
And there is to make money for podcasts because, again,
music you get a deliverable,
and where else with, uh, you know,
and we have to think about that,
because we don't really want to put paywalls in front of music either.
But, you know, that.
There's a thing.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Are you telling the point?
Just so awful.
No, no, no, wait.
When, when, when,
what interactive point real quick with music,
it is so deliverable.
I have anticipation on my way to the internet to go by music.
It's, it's really deliverable.
Hang on.
So you tell me that music is deliverable, right?
So let's say AC DC ends up a new album.
It's deliverable in a way that podcasting hasn't figured out yet.
Podcasting is absolutely that deliverable.
We just haven't figured it out.
Yeah.
No, I think the difference is, and it's historical.
I think the difference is largely historical.
Um, like you say, you have anticipation of buying the new album from AC DC,
and that's great.
Whereas podcasts have historically always been essentially free access
through easily accessible software using a standard RSS feed.
And so people being, you know, they're like, I can get podcasts for free,
and then suddenly the idea that they might have to pay for them,
they find that difficult.
Whereas music, they've always paid for it.
That's baked in.
It's called growing up.
Well, let, let, let me get a little bit political here, right?
Podcasts are free at the point of service.
That doesn't mean they're free because someone's got a pay for it.
And, uh, this is something that we just...
Yeah, joke, joke.
It sounds a lot like it.
It just doesn't it.
Joe, you're preaching to the choir.
We all understand that you don't need to say it as if we disagree with you.
We get that.
We're on the same page at this point, and it sounds aggressive.
To me, maybe I'm just hearing it wrong.
And if so, I apologize for interrupting.
Well, it just seems to me that you've got a bunch of people who are happy to make podcasts
as a hobby, right?
Which is totally cold, like great.
And, you know, they want to make a few bucks out of it
to sort of kind of cover their expenses and maybe even cover their time.
But, you know, if you're spending, you know, say two hours every couple of weeks
to get together with some friends record it,
and, you know, like, maybe do a little bit of an audacity
and then export it, upload it somewhere, and publish it.
And, you know, that's, you know, you may be making a couple of hundred bucks a month
or, you know, you're bringing in a hundred couple hundred bucks a month.
That's covering your hosting costs and it's paying everyone a beer money, whatever.
And that's cool, right? But that's just not what I'm trying to do here.
I'm trying to do this as a living, and it's just a different situation
and it's, it's very hard in the Linux and open source world
to make people understand that that you can't,
and this applies to open source projects as well.
You've got certain projects that haven't been updated for years and years and years, right?
Because you're, okay?
You sound really guilty, but what you're saying doesn't sound worthy of guilt.
It's not what you're doing.
It's something you want to keep.
No, yes, yes, yes.
I really don't think it opens or it's.
Yes, I wasn't sure I'm gonna be able to.
I'm trying to say that like you sound, you, it's,
it's, it's guilt.
Yes, I, I, I don't think it's, defensive.
Maybe defensive is the weapon.
Yeah, okay, no defensive.
I don't understand.
But in, the difference there is that, I would, you're among,
I mean, I know you don't get along with,
is that, you know, I'll go back to the pronunciation.
I know you'll get along with them.
It's pronounced.
Mass, and OSS.
Okay.
Mass, okay.
I understand you don't get along with them.
He still sounds like your friend.
I don't have any problems with opinion.
I just, that's about it.
I don't have a problem with the model, Joe.
I know you need to make money.
I don't have a problem with that.
I just don't think that because I advertise
one of my podcasts as being,
no ads, no BS.
It doesn't mean I'm calling your product bad.
It just means I'm calling my product what it is.
Okay.
So no, no ads is in one circle,
and no BS is in another.
And, and Joe, you don't fall within the,
the Zen overlap.
You never, he never meant to attend the truth.
I did.
If anybody listens to this,
thinks that no ads are nor BS.
It's not an attack on people who have ads in their shows.
Then, good luck.
Good luck with the critical thinking and the rest of it.
That comes to my house.
No, listen, listen to me.
To come to my house, my fucking house,
my telegram group,
and advertise your podcast,
as having no ads of no BS,
gets your band from my telegram group.
So, right?
No, no, no.
He said it in wrong place,
and then we had a conversation about it.
And then he doubled down on it,
and he can get fucked.
Okay.
And all of you can get fucked,
because I'm just done with this.
He don't tell me to get fucked.
I'm trying to understand you,
and I, all right,
up.
Mass.
Yep.
That's my arrest for the night.
Dude, you said it in the wrong place,
and you shouldn't have doubled down.
I did the same thing myself.
He was, he was asking people
to advertise their podcasts on his show.
My podcast,
I, I was not saying anything about his podcast
being bad or wrong in any way.
I was just saying,
my podcast has no ads,
no BS.
It's a less than 10 minute podcast
of the weeks.
Learning said open source news.
But I don't have time to get along.
I can't get it.
Sorry.
I was very angry,
and also happened to be in a dead zone there.
Sorry.
Fucking 3G sucks.
It's not even 4G here.
So I,
maybe breaking up.
Sorry.
I didn't believe that.
I just,
that was shitty timing.
Sorry.
And it was the first time.
It's not going to be perfect.
Thanks.
Hey.
Okay.
May I for just a moment?
A wicked drunk.
I need to say,
I love you guys.
I love this conversation.
I understand.
What is it?
Moved spell it.
Mosh.
Yes.
Okay.
Mosh.
You made a great point.
You did it in the wrong place.
He let you know it was not in the wrong place.
And instead of saying sorry,
you know,
next time I'll try to do it better,
you doubled down.
I've done the same thing.
I don't know.
Maybe I'll get it double down.
I feel like he just went on slamming me.
What doesn't matter.
Do you think about what can you say?
Just,
Even if that move on from there.
Yeah.
He thinks you doubled down.
Whether or not you've,
you've meant to,
he's not questioning your intention.
You doubled down in the wrong place.
And he was just saying it was not the right place to do it.
If we can agree that it was the wrong place,
I totally agree with the point that you made.
It's what we've all been talking about all night.
It's.
He's even saying the same damn thing.
It was just the wrong way to say,
way to say it in the wrong place. Thank you. Exactly, yes. Thank you for
summoning it up, brilliantly. Who hit me? Yes, you. I'm sorry. I just
summed up your submarine. No, that's all. The both of you summed it up between
you, brilliantly. Yes, it was the wrong thing to say in the wrong
place and in a different venue could have been much better handle and
like this is definitely not the right venue for that for this whole thing either.
I'm sorry for bringing it up as well. I'm sorry. Cool. See, now I think we're in the right
frame of mind. It may be Joe and I hit it off. We're in the right frame of mind for team
building and for love and for sharing love for one another. Bridge building, excuse me,
that's we're in the right frame of mind. I am Joe, what about you? I'm sure. Yeah, but you are a
brilliant, fucking diplomat, is all I could say. Here, Joe, are you open to working? Are you open
to working for the British government because we need some? We really, really don't. Can you
please talk to Europe and fix that whole situation because we need a good diplomat like you?
Which whole situation? All of them, please. No, it's not. Is it the cabbage situation? I thought
there was already handled. That's the one. It's a lettuce and yeah, it's a big, it's a lettuce. Oh, my
favorite one was the flitching episode in Holland. So y'all want to know what I just finished up?
Yep, as long as it changes the subject. AK74, a short barrel, a pistol technically,
and a 556. Cool. Those are ridiculous. Oh, which 555 weapons? Like, we'll take the same ammo as, um,
what, um, the M16 M4? Yes, that's a 556, it's a 223. Well, 556 is, is 556 is a federal, the NATO
round, and 556 will not go into a 223, but 223 will fall into a 556 just fine.
Cool. But it's still a ridiculous weapon, and it's like, I wouldn't have made the same.
You've still using a rifle round, yeah, it's correct. And a rifle, well, it's short barrel,
though. That's the only bandage, which makes it just twice as hard to control. It negates all the
advantages. Well, if you're saying the M16 is better than the M4 because it's got a longer barrel?
No, I'm saying no. No, I'm saying a rifle round without a shoulder stock is very difficult to control.
Ah, okay. I mean, I can hold, uh, one inch groups at uh, 50 yards. Oh, like,
oh, there's some other stuff in the top of a cylinder block wall, because that's the only place
where you would want to use that weapon. Or are you staying still? Hold it, stand in a
supply area. Sorry, that's right, but this one is pretty up. Sorry, I'm trying to break in here
with it, just the worst mobile connection ever. So, sorry, I think I'm going to have to drop out
because it's just dropping out all the time and packet loss and everything. I've just got the
work. I think everyone's just on their phones because this new year's eve or whatever, even I'm in
London. No, it was great. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. Okay, well, it's kind of dropping in us.
So, uh, I'll keep listening for a bit, but uh, yeah, it was great to talk to everyone. And uh,
yeah, it's pretty true. I guess next year. Joe, one last thing, if you, if we don't speak again,
I still have my question for you that I posted in the chat. Doesn't have to be here,
but I got a question for you. I'm sorry, I'm not like, it's this mobile kind of plumbel
of, uh, asteroid isn't great for that sort of thing. What was the question, uh, briefly?
Yeah, you just answered it, actually. Oh, was it what client I'm using? Yes, thank you.
Yeah, plumbel, sorry. Yeah, it's, uh, the client is great, but just my connection is terrible tonight.
Usually it's great out here, but the number of cars and everything, uh, it's, it's, it's not
the client, it's my connection. I know, I've had problems all night. It's just a very busy night
for London. So, uh, what do you, what do you think for, uh, we have to wear an
announcement when you're, someone needs to do a new year announcement. When we all do it,
three, two, one, half, half a year. I don't have to do it at the time, don't
do it at all. It's still in the middle of the Atlantic. Um, next hour will be at
lag time, which is New Brunswick and, and Newfoundland. And the hour after that is Eastern time,
U.S. Actually, the, anyway, somewhere is, yeah, it doesn't take my beeper zill or not,
today. And then I think you found them half an hour. Yeah, but that's a missed an hour from now.
No, then the new family. Yeah, no family. Oh, a phyauton's in. Yeah. Oh,
you have these are so cool and weird. And then New Brunswick and uh, Nova Scotia are in one hour.
Well, I completely flubbed all announcing, we're all in North Carolina because uh, yeah, for some reason,
I thought there was flowers. Yeah, I thought I was a later in this. Oh, I thought you just,
you were too sober. I mean, I'm dead sober because like, I've just been working on a weapon.
And I don't do that trunk. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Let's see. Actually, that's not just,
that's best policy. That is the best rack that's that's going to be real hard to improve on that one
folks. Uh, improve on. Yeah, but once again, I've mentioned Iowa, where the state sport is drinking
and driving, but you know, the hobby on the side of that is taking your sugar rifle with you
and hunting from out the window. Wow, both of those things suck. You know what's awesome?
Up in this neck of the woods, what we do is get drunk in the front yard. And when red and
next go flying by, like doing jumps on your street, you go woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. And the 12 year old
raises the Miller light atcha. Yeah, but that seems logical. You know, it's fun here is uh,
local cops getting drunk and uh, smashing up their uh, cars. Oh, they're El Camino. It's
those cops got El Camino's. Why don't we just smash up in El Camino? Uh, they're El Camino's here.
Yes, and pirate. Yes, and they're driven on and fucking forward uh, shit explorers.
Anyways, so we more about the pistol you made. Uh, well, it's uh,
shoulders receiver, uh, WPP pull in parts. Uh, what is it? You know,
you'll know. What is our shoulders receiver? What is this receiver better than a stamp steel
one that collashnikov chat out on his birthday? Oh, it's it is a stamped steel one. It's just
uh, you know, it's just, it's just has a nice made in USA on it. So it's easier to deal with
regulations. Did the main USA get stamped into the receiver when the receiver was stamped
or is it like laser cut? Uh, well, uh, the, it is my understanding that the basic stamping was
done in Poland as a flat and then it was shaped here and then this dude named, there's place called
shoulders. Like, they're places in Germany, maybe in USA. Anyway, well, it's like, you know,
anything else. Like, if you do the final finishing steps in the USA, the NAICALS is made in USA.
Yeah, but so that about half the city buses in America are made in Canada. They just do the
finishing work in Buffalo. Yeah, it's like, you bolt the, no, you bolt the holes on and Buffalo
and you get to stamp made in USA on it. No, that doesn't work for someone named pirate.
You said you bought it because it says, it's the laser at, made in USA on it. I asked you what
the advantage of it was over the one that Colashnikov shot out on his birthday. No, it's basically
a clone. And because he shot it out in his birthday, someone should go edit Wikipedia and then it
will become true as long as they reference us. I thought everything in Wikipedia was true.
That's what I just said. So Mo, Mo, Mo, Mo, you got to learn to agree with people better.
Boss, boss, my coffee, but instead of his name, wrong, every single time.
Because he spelled it phonetically and it was not an M or an O or an O or an S.
It's an I will use the same thing as boss. It's just in Sanskrit. So,
but it's not in all this way. Honestly, did not pronounce it myself. All right, all right,
I will handle the Zaivalananda which means most bliss. I'm changing my answer.
I managed to get it wrong every time because I'm an idiot. Final answer.
Well, you said I don't want to know what it means. I try to be nice idiot. Do I know what what
means? It's for her. No, but I'd like to. It means absolutely nothing. I made it up. Do you know what
Joe means? Coffee. Coffee, yeah. Well, actually, it also means a GI of American soldiers.
Well, I've been there, too. But no, it actually means...
He has the vote. He also blew it. You've got walked on Joe, can you say?
I'm sorry. Joe means gift from God. Oh, yeah, right on. My son's name was Jacob.
Yeah. My name is my name is my first name is actually Kiron, which is an Irish name,
meaning the little dock one, but I'm 181 centimeters tall and blonde, so I don't know what's
happening there. Well, careful that it ain't your heart. Just don't look, you know. It's like
a one-eye open. It's okay. I got it. What is your daughter, Tala here? And her name means little wolf.
What is that in real inches? It's six foot one inch. Oh, not bad.
Means what? Talking wolf. Okay. I got it wrong. Oh, two socks. Like from the answers or
wolves. Oh, hold on. You can talk to Tala for a second. I'm going to lift some everything.
Hold on. Joe does a lot of weight lifting. Oh. Hey, Tala? Hi. Yeah. Joe said that you're shorter
because he named you Tala and he's sorry. He's a liar. He was too sorry for that.
Shit, I just get him. Hi, Tala. It's Moss. You know me from the other podcasts. Hi, Moss.
It's a pleasure to hear you. Thank you. Good to hear you, too. You're the cleverest kid I've
talked to all day. Thank you. I'll be it. I'm going to talk now. So I'm big.
What for your age, I meant for your I talked to a eight year old who was just brilliant all
so for your age. Thank you, sir. So what kind of lies has my father been telling you?
I got three sisters up out here. Oh, no, we're not going to give him. We're not going to give that up,
on, Joe. He said soft. I shouldn't be free with a capital F. He said only with a lower case of
he said that software. He said that software should only be free with a lower case F, but never with a
capital F. Yeah, he said. He said. He made something even less. He's Windows. He said. He made you
even less. He spelled Windows without a Z. That was the lie he told. But a horrible person.
No, we know he's your father. You got to forgive him. No, he's on the path. He's on the path
through this. We're working with him. Even if you don't forgive him now, just at least wait till
we're done with him. Well, right now he's just on the weight bench, which is not quite the path
to redemption. I don't know. He's pretty enough to get away with it. You don't want to be on the
weight bench if moss is your spotter. He is not. We'll say physically reliable for that situation.
I'm too old for that. They're slandering you. No, I'm too old for two. You don't want me to be
there neither. No, I'm blessed. This guy's a sweetheart. It's only slander if it's a lie.
Have I heard your voice before my dear? Uh, probably. I tend to try and interrupt his peacetime,
which is mostly when he talks to you. Would you be the not tall person? Yes. I am the rather
short person with the tall name. Yes, that's she's an entirely associate got short. He
okay, then he owes you an apology. How about that? I will, we'll just call you shorty. I have been
I have been delighted by hearing, I believe, you're, or somebody cut out a recording of your
voice and gave it to me some years ago. Unfortunately, it's not on their system.
Oh, you're talking about my sister. Can I? The one where it's the I am short? It's hard to keep
crack of all the beauties in your family, you know. Oh, you're going to make me plush. That was the
idea. Yeah, he was told to my sister. Did he give you his both I write names? I am a preemptively.
I'm on the East Coast, so I think we're at a safe distance for platonic relationship. I feel like
that works. I think my dad might, you know, get a little angry at any other way. He's like,
as long as there are two states away. Yo, net minor, East Coast is all on the same
tectonic plate, so those platonic relationships are still really, really like, yeah, well,
emanating. But Joe's in Texas, that doesn't count. Yeah, sorry, Texas is like a cryptid. We're stuck here.
No, so that's cool. So there's at least a lot of time in the bite of behaviorism. So the thing to do
is to move up to Seattle and join the gay greater Pacific Northwest Pollachule. But it's so
Seattle. No, it's so green and gloomy in Seattle all the time. If the weather was nice,
I'd get it, but seriously, that's the hill you want to die on. I mean, especially the keeper
of the Vancouver that keep talking about how nice it is that I'm going. It's right next to Seattle.
It can't be that nice. Well, but it is sometimes I've seen pictures. Well, yeah, there are the
half of the year. It's gorgeous. Vancouver at least is sane. Seattle is questionable. Well,
instead, instead of bashing on places, who's got any more funny name stuff? Well, we have
called my sister a fair few funny names. I'd like to share them. One of them was pooped
prints on my ass. So hey, that was mine. She stole that. I guarantee them older than her.
Don't try her. She'll time travel and fight you for it. I know. If you want to
active time travel scalability in the offers winning position, you always, if you want to
always have to let the villain think they're winning. If you want a funny name, I went to school with a
guy called Adam Schittler. No, I'm not joking. At least it wasn't at all. I thought it was about
I'm sure. I'm sure I'm sure his dad was sat there with the baby now. It's just going
please and his mom was like, no, please. No, fine. Adam, then. No, wait a minute. What about
on the altar? Like, hey, baby, I know we have a proud long Schittler history to uphold here. But
can we at least hypheny? Like, pineapple hyphen Schittler? Can, but it's something. Yeah. Adam, pineapple
Schittler. Okay. So the first of your name, Schittler Schalen, just like you wanted.
This, I want the enterprise level. I don't want the econobox one of those. I want the enterprise.
Are they? I thought the enterprise was in dry dog to me threads. No, I'm sorry. I'm talking to my dad.
I couldn't hear you for that. I'm sorry you're talking to your dad too, but we understand.
You have been listening to Hecker Public Radio at Hecker Public Radio does work.
Today's show was contributed by a hatebird in this night like yourself. If you ever thought
of a coin podcast, click on our contributely to find out how easy it means. Hosting for HDR
has been kindly provided by an onsthost.com, the Internet Archive and our Sync.net.
On this otherwise stages, today's show is released on our Creative Commons,
Attribution for Pointo International License.